Episode 6

Unreleased: What You Haven't Heard

March 30, 2022

Unreleased: What You Haven't Heard

Summary: Krystal Roberts and Matt Linder reflect on their favorite contributor moments from Season 2, the Lauryn Hill season. They also walk through their top three bars from Lauryn Hill's unreleased songs that have been the most impactful on them.

Timestamps:

Krystal and Matt discuss their favorite moments from Season 2 - 1:45

Krystal and Matt share their top three bars from unreleased Lauryn Hill songs. - 11:27

Hosts: Lauryn Hill researcher, Krystal Roberts, and Hip Hop scholar, Matt Linder.

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Logo design by @papercutprayers

Theme music by Julius Tunstall.

Additional music from Yons.

Episode Transcript: https://share.descript.com/view/Tpc6PMnXgIO

Transcript
Krystal Roberts:

I'm crystal Roberts.

Matt Linder:

I'm Madeline.

Krystal Roberts:

This is flickers

Krystal Roberts:

unreleased.

Krystal Roberts:

What you haven't heard.

Matt Linder:

Hi, everyone.

Matt Linder:

This episode will be different as you'll hear from crystal and I, as we process

Matt Linder:

our thoughts on the season and what we learn from the contributors, that

Matt Linder:

podcast, because we learned so much.

Krystal Roberts:

And then in part two of our conversation, we're also each going to

Krystal Roberts:

share three bars from Lauryn's unreleased material that impacted us personally.

Krystal Roberts:

Our hope is that it will pique your interest her exploring her music

Krystal Roberts:

post=Miseducation and Unplugged.

Krystal Roberts:

So let's get to it.

Krystal Roberts:

Okay.

Krystal Roberts:

So Matt, when we talked about all of the contributors, we sort of broke

Krystal Roberts:

it down into like three sections.

Krystal Roberts:

Like what was the most surprising moment?

Krystal Roberts:

The contribution that personally contributions that we

Krystal Roberts:

personally appreciate it a lot.

Krystal Roberts:

And then just the contributor that we just really loved.

Krystal Roberts:

So I figured, you can kick it off and, you know, tell me what you think.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

So this might seem weird, but I think the surprising thing for me was with QA

Matt Linder:

and Raven in the first episode, and they talked about the impact of Lauren's look

Matt Linder:

for them as a black woman because I had never thought of Lauren from that angle.

Matt Linder:

At all you know, I just thought of her music and the speeches and interviews

Matt Linder:

that she'd given and I didn't really have a thought, like the way she presented

Matt Linder:

herself and carried herself and her look.

Matt Linder:

And how much of impact that had on black woman in the nineties?

Matt Linder:

Because no one really looked like during that time period that was so mainstream.

Matt Linder:

It just really opened my mind a lot.

Matt Linder:

I was like, oh wow.

Matt Linder:

I didn't even consider that or think of that.

Matt Linder:

And that's why I was so appreciative of having them on the podcast so they can

Matt Linder:

provide that insight to all our listeners.

Matt Linder:

There's lots of is probably nodding in agreement, you know,

Matt Linder:

but a lot of listeners that are like me that are like white

Matt Linder:

dudes who are big hip hop heads,

Matt Linder:

know, like that's probably, it's surprising to them as it was to me and it

Matt Linder:

just, how amazing that even in that sense of the way she was presenting herself

Matt Linder:

to the world was also revolutionary.

Krystal Roberts:

No, that's good.

Krystal Roberts:

So for me, it, it was Femi

Krystal Roberts:

five.

Krystal Roberts:

And, and I think it's because I spent so much time with unplugged when he,

Krystal Roberts:

went song by song and sort of broke down how the entire unplug album was

Krystal Roberts:

basically the biblical narrative.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

Yeah,

Krystal Roberts:

You know, I wrote about this album, so I understood all of

Krystal Roberts:

the biblical language things, I hadn't necessarily saw the connective thread,

Krystal Roberts:

That story of man, that story of Lauren, that story of humanity

Krystal Roberts:

and him putting it all together was like a huge aha moment for me.

Krystal Roberts:

I really, really enjoyed it.

Krystal Roberts:

It was surprising of course, but it's sort of opened my mind up to and I was

Krystal Roberts:

really, really appreciative of that.

Matt Linder:

that's

Matt Linder:

cool.

Matt Linder:

That's cool.

Matt Linder:

Yeah, that was, that was probably be my second, most surprising thing.

Matt Linder:

Tickets that I had.

Matt Linder:

I'd studied the album a lot too and had even seen that aspect of it.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

Contribution that you really appreciated a lot,

Krystal Roberts:

So it had to be Cheryl Kirk Dugin.

Krystal Roberts:

I tend to like lean into people who sort of connect the dots for me.

Krystal Roberts:

she did that.

Krystal Roberts:

When she talked about the connection between love, freedom and justice,

Krystal Roberts:

basically noting that you cannot have one without the other.

Krystal Roberts:

right?

Krystal Roberts:

And it's sort of this, so to speak those three things.

Krystal Roberts:

And I had never thought of that, of course, but as she explained

Krystal Roberts:

it through the context of what she had picked up in analyzing Lauren's

Krystal Roberts:

music, it was totally clear.

Krystal Roberts:

And then I just thought about it on, in a real life setting.

Krystal Roberts:

Like have you ever seen a person that does not have freedom

Krystal Roberts:

be, have overwhelming love?

Krystal Roberts:

It's just never, you know, you

Krystal Roberts:

see that, right.

Krystal Roberts:

You

Krystal Roberts:

don't see.

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Krystal Roberts:

You don't

Krystal Roberts:

see justice, you know, with a bunch of hate.

Krystal Roberts:

It just work that way.

Krystal Roberts:

I saw those three.

Krystal Roberts:

I saw those three as one and I was like, yo, this is the most

Krystal Roberts:

fascinating thing I've ever heard.

Krystal Roberts:

, I need to write on this.

Krystal Roberts:

It was, it was man.

Krystal Roberts:

I appreciated that a ton.

Matt Linder:

yeah, that was, yeah.

Matt Linder:

So cool.

Matt Linder:

I think it was the thing that we like gravitated towards as we were

Matt Linder:

putting this episode together was the way that she just framed as those as

Matt Linder:

interrelated things in Lauren's music.

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Krystal Roberts:

So, what about you?

Krystal Roberts:

You know, what,

Krystal Roberts:

you appreciate it.

Matt Linder:

I really appreciate Eric House and breaking down X

Matt Linder:

factor cause that, oh my God.

Matt Linder:

The musicologists in me that just spoke to me so much, because you spoke so much

Matt Linder:

about the relationship between the lyrics and the music and how the music bolstered

Matt Linder:

the lyrics and reflected the lyrics and the way he just went through that and

Matt Linder:

broke it down was just, ah, amazing.

Matt Linder:

And I was like, oh my gosh,

Krystal Roberts:

yeah.

Matt Linder:

I was just chewing it up, eating it all up when

Matt Linder:

I recorded that with them.

Matt Linder:

And I was like, oh my gosh.

Matt Linder:

He's like, well, do you have anything else to ask me after you said all that?

Matt Linder:

I was like, no, that was amazing.

Matt Linder:

I wasn't even expecting that.

Matt Linder:

He's like, why don't I know, all the music terms, that wall and stuff.

Matt Linder:

And I'm like, but, oh my gosh, she was like, get this

Matt Linder:

incredible breakdown of this song.

Matt Linder:

And I was just

Matt Linder:

like, wow.

Krystal Roberts:

That was great.

Krystal Roberts:

So the contributor that I loved was Raven Jones first and

Krystal Roberts:

foremost, it was her passion and just her sincerity in speaking.

Krystal Roberts:

Not just about Lauren, but just the opportunity to speak about

Krystal Roberts:

something that was meaningful to her.

Krystal Roberts:

Number one, that was the

Krystal Roberts:

thing.

Krystal Roberts:

I really appreciated her story about how, when she first, I guess it was

Krystal Roberts:

her and her cousin or her and a friend or someone where they got in the car

Krystal Roberts:

and they to buy the miseducation and kind of talking about that experience.

Krystal Roberts:

And while I didn't have that experience, I've talked to other

Krystal Roberts:

people who have, know what I

Matt Linder:

yeah, yeah.

Krystal Roberts:

it's like, man, that was a real thing.

Krystal Roberts:

And so her sharing that and sharing it in the way she did, I just loved her energy.

Krystal Roberts:

And then lastly, I enjoy brief discussion on Lauren as a team.

Krystal Roberts:

And I think was able to appreciate that and connect that,

Krystal Roberts:

connect with that when it comes

Krystal Roberts:

She, herself is an education.

Krystal Roberts:

And so I began, it made me start to think about Lauren as teacher.

Krystal Roberts:

And when I did think about it a little more, I realized like, yeah, for me

Krystal Roberts:

as a listener as someone who handled her lyrics, as you know, literature

Krystal Roberts:

in a lot of ways, I learned a ton.

Krystal Roberts:

I learned a lot, you know,

Krystal Roberts:

spiritually, obviously I learned a lot, but I learned a lot about what Lauren

Krystal Roberts:

sometimes calls reality versus unreality.

Krystal Roberts:

You know what I mean?

Krystal Roberts:

Mass having a mask versus not having a mask.

Krystal Roberts:

And it really taught me a lot about.

Krystal Roberts:

Being my real and authentic self,

Krystal Roberts:

Presenting that idea to be so, know, uh, Raven, really kind of just while

Krystal Roberts:

I enjoyed everything, she also made me think a little bit deeper about Lauren

Krystal Roberts:

as, as an educator that's teacher.

Matt Linder:

that's so awesome.

Matt Linder:

So the person I really loved was Cheryl.

Matt Linder:

Oh my gosh.

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

was so fun to interview for this.

Matt Linder:

And she brought so many fire takes rapid things.

Matt Linder:

Like we only give a portion of what she said in the interview

Matt Linder:

with me throughout this podcast.

Matt Linder:

And there's so much more, and she was so, I mean, she's just, oh my gosh,

Matt Linder:

she's such an incredible scholar and she's published so many books and she's

Matt Linder:

involved in so many things in life.

Matt Linder:

She was just amazing to talk to.

Matt Linder:

And she's also an ordained minister besides being a professor and

Matt Linder:

yeah, she was just so knowledgeable and just had incredible ways of

Matt Linder:

connecting things with Lauren.

Matt Linder:

And she was also so incredibly kind.

Krystal Roberts:

let's be honest.

Krystal Roberts:

She's smart.

Matt Linder:

Oh, my gosh.

Matt Linder:

Yes.

Krystal Roberts:

Smart.

Matt Linder:

Yes.

Matt Linder:

I've been to like lots of academic conferences, in my past when I was in

Matt Linder:

college and some afterwards and stuff, but she is probably the most intelligent

Matt Linder:

scholar I've ever spoken to, you know,

Krystal Roberts:

Yes.

Matt Linder:

But at the same time she was so laid back and personable.

Matt Linder:

Cause I've tried talking to other scholars at conferences and it's, it's rough.

Matt Linder:

It's hard to like have a real conversation and have fun and

Matt Linder:

like, Hey, isn't this cool.

Matt Linder:

We're here talking about this thing we love altogether.

Matt Linder:

And they're like, let's be very serious.

Matt Linder:

And I'm like,

Krystal Roberts:

right.

Matt Linder:

okay, well this conversation didn't go over

Matt Linder:

well, but she was not like that.

Matt Linder:

I was, she's just, ah, Anyways show is great.

Matt Linder:

I loved all the stuff she contributed in like, just having a conversation

Matt Linder:

with her, like outside of the recording of the interview is also great too.

Krystal Roberts:

Awesome.

Krystal Roberts:

All right.

Krystal Roberts:

So let's shift our attention to the three lines from Lauren's unreleased material.

Krystal Roberts:

I thought it'd be a great idea if we just kind of, you know,

Krystal Roberts:

went back and forth a little bit.

Krystal Roberts:

I don't know what lines you about to unleash on me and you don't know mine.

Krystal Roberts:

I thought that make it super interesting.

Krystal Roberts:

Since I tell you what you go ahead and get started.

Matt Linder:

I'm going to start with black rage

Matt Linder:

and it's the lines that open up the song.

Matt Linder:

Black rage is founded on two thirds of person rapings and beatings

Matt Linder:

and suffering that worsens black human packages tied up in strings.

Matt Linder:

Black grades can come from all of these kinds of things.

Matt Linder:

So the song was released after Michael Brown was shot in, came out

Matt Linder:

during the time of the uprising in Ferguson in response to the officer

Matt Linder:

acquitted for Michael Brown's death.

Matt Linder:

And how she takes an old classic song, a favorite things

Matt Linder:

and makes it about injustice.

Matt Linder:

And the anger at injustice is amazing.

Matt Linder:

Just musically, how she fits these lyrics into that melody.

Matt Linder:

And then she takes like the images, cause "Favorite Things" is like so often

Matt Linder:

played during Christmas time and the image of, packages tied up in string

Matt Linder:

and how she flips that to be about, oh my, ah, to be about lynchings.

Matt Linder:

I remember the first time I heard this song and then heard that line.

Matt Linder:

I was gutted, just get into the core.

Matt Linder:

And haunted and oh my gosh, how has she took this song about like mass

Matt Linder:

consumerism and turn it to be a song about injustice and fighting injustice and

Matt Linder:

about like the rapings and the beatings of suffering and the lynchings and,

Matt Linder:

a short amount of words you have this whole picture and this whole feeling.

Matt Linder:

And it's like, I feel that rage.

Matt Linder:

Yeah,

Krystal Roberts:

Wow.

Krystal Roberts:

I had

Krystal Roberts:

no idea

Matt Linder:

yeah,

Krystal Roberts:

and no,

Krystal Roberts:

with particularly the packages tied up in streams.

Krystal Roberts:

I just, wow.

Krystal Roberts:

I had no idea.

Matt Linder:

yeah,

Krystal Roberts:

That's powerful.

Krystal Roberts:

That's powerful.

Matt Linder:

Very powerful.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

So what about you?

Matt Linder:

What's your, what's your first one?

Krystal Roberts:

So my first one is from social drugs.

Krystal Roberts:

I think this came out, it might've even been the same

Krystal Roberts:

year that unplugged came out.

Krystal Roberts:

But if not, it at least was within a couple of years.

Krystal Roberts:

Um, but the line is, we're told to camouflage regret in a religious

Krystal Roberts:

structure, tells us, God wants us to suffer, to support a situation

Krystal Roberts:

we all know is obligation.

Krystal Roberts:

And it's, a lie like that, stuck with me because, sometimes you hear

Krystal Roberts:

things when you're in a place in life where it's just meaningful.

Krystal Roberts:

But I always thought it was very meaningful because, , she's always talking

Krystal Roberts:

about these systems and in that line, she's identifying the system of religion

Krystal Roberts:

that is essentially telling us to pretend.

Krystal Roberts:

Pretend like nothing is going on.

Krystal Roberts:

Pretend like we're having an authentic experience and an

Krystal Roberts:

authentic faith when we're not.

Krystal Roberts:

And to justify

Krystal Roberts:

it, you're saying, God wants us to suffer.

Krystal Roberts:

Right.

Krystal Roberts:

This is the way it's supposed to be.

Krystal Roberts:

And so for a person who was, hearing that line in all those

Krystal Roberts:

years ago, I was experienced in that situation, and this idea of

Krystal Roberts:

camouflaging regret, know what I mean?

Krystal Roberts:

We're going to act like everything is okay.

Krystal Roberts:

And that for me, cause trauma and I know it cause

Krystal Roberts:

others, you know what I mean?

Krystal Roberts:

And that's just not how, know, we would see.

Krystal Roberts:

System built on what it, what it says it's spelt on whatever be So

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

Those lines also must be, think of like all the abuse that happens at churches

Matt Linder:

and how there has been kind of like a

Krystal Roberts:

that

Matt Linder:

great revealing, like kind of in conjunction with the me too movement.

Matt Linder:

There's been a church too movement too, that has exposed a lot of the

Matt Linder:

sexual abuse and assault that has happened in various churches and denominations

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Krystal Roberts:

I mean, there's, there's many things that we're pretending about, you know,

Krystal Roberts:

pretending that aren't happening.

Krystal Roberts:

A

Krystal Roberts:

things.

Matt Linder:

Yup So for my second one comes around consumerism and

Matt Linder:

the line is ugly, human, ugly shame, corporate greed in Jesus's name.

Matt Linder:

And he, yeah,

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

feel like this has been so like, especially when it

Matt Linder:

comes to like politics in the U S like, this has been so much of

Matt Linder:

like the experience in our country.

Matt Linder:

Just like, I mean, I wasn't aware of it when I was a kid in the eighties, but

Matt Linder:

just reading back on it and watching back on it with like president Reagan.

Matt Linder:

up

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

and how he just like Kimber cross, like, oh, about religious and

Matt Linder:

how we've seen that pattern, continue to repeat over and over again in

Matt Linder:

politics of like co-opting religion and using that to like fund all this

Matt Linder:

corporate greed and like at one side of the mouse saying they'll say our

Matt Linder:

country is a Christian nation in Britain built on Judeo-Christian values.

Matt Linder:

And it's like, okay.

Matt Linder:

So why aren't you like helping their press and the poor and the widows in

Matt Linder:

the ways that they can be taken care of?

Matt Linder:

And they're like, well, they really don't believe that, but they just

Matt Linder:

spout all that stuff at the same time.

Matt Linder:

Helping all these systems of oppression to stay in place.

Matt Linder:

All these corporate interests that can be studied, make tons

Matt Linder:

and tons of money while people are still poor and living in poverty.

Matt Linder:

And so, yeah, I just really appreciate that line because it just was like all

Matt Linder:

these different images come up in my mind of people, and even that's on the huge

Matt Linder:

big level, but then even I see, on the, the micro level of folks at churches who

Matt Linder:

get into like these multilevel marketing things, and like, oh, I'm going to use the

Matt Linder:

people at my church to get involved in.

Matt Linder:

Multilevel marketing.

Matt Linder:

So I can get lots of greed for myself, and say, this is I'm selling essential

Matt Linder:

oils, but I'm doing it for Jesus.

Krystal Roberts:

Jesus.

Matt Linder:

Yes, exactly.

Matt Linder:

And I've seen like that stuff, people branding it that way.

Matt Linder:

It goes up at the very macro level.

Matt Linder:

We see that, but then we also see it, get very small level like that too,

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Krystal Roberts:

You know, it's crazy because I literally chose the same line from consumerism.

Matt Linder:

way.

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Krystal Roberts:

The only diff right.

Krystal Roberts:

The only difference is that I added the line that came right before it, which

Krystal Roberts:

was, see, people need to villainize to offset the disdain for their lives.

Krystal Roberts:

Shame, corporate greed in Jesus' name.

Krystal Roberts:

And basically it's everything you just said, you know what I mean?

Krystal Roberts:

And I guess I'll just focus on that first part, which is.

Krystal Roberts:

You have these entities, those who reside over these systems and they it's

Krystal Roberts:

a game of distraction and projection, or they're, villainizing some group,

Krystal Roberts:

some party to offset the stuff they're actually doing in their lives, the things

Krystal Roberts:

they're doing in the lives of others.

Krystal Roberts:

Right.

Krystal Roberts:

And think in Lauren talking about it this way, she sort of highlighting

Krystal Roberts:

maybe the ugly human behavior underneath that villainizing of others.

Krystal Roberts:

Um, and, um, and then the, the part about the corporate greed in Jesus'

Krystal Roberts:

name I could've just chosen that alone.

Krystal Roberts:

right.

Matt Linder:

right.

Krystal Roberts:

that alone, because you know, we have, in God, we trust on our.

Krystal Roberts:

Our money,

Matt Linder:

Right.

Matt Linder:

Yeah, exactly.

Krystal Roberts:

It's just, much contradiction, but know, to even,

Krystal Roberts:

it happens obviously here in the United States, but just on a

Krystal Roberts:

global level, we watch and we it for decades, , just pillaging the

Krystal Roberts:

resources of other lands and giving them Jesus they take the resources.

Krystal Roberts:

And this is all for corporate gain, their greed, you know, so that line,

Krystal Roberts:

was very powerful to be because it kind of got to the human condition

Krystal Roberts:

of what's really underneath that, the ugliness as she called it.

Krystal Roberts:

And then, that conflict between what should be authentic faith and

Krystal Roberts:

really just downright greed the willingness to exploit one for the.

Krystal Roberts:

It's just, it's interesting because you know, everything,

Krystal Roberts:

Jesus stood for he preached about was to help the needy, right,

Krystal Roberts:

The oppressed to free deal, press, you

Krystal Roberts:

life abundantly.

Krystal Roberts:

And going to take that guy and his message like that guy, that's

Krystal Roberts:

the guy you're going to take.

Matt Linder:

right.

Krystal Roberts:

And you know, the one you call God and then do what you

Krystal Roberts:

do, know, it's just, it's amazing.

Krystal Roberts:

It's amazing.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

All right.

Matt Linder:

Lastly, I pulled from guarding the gates, and it's a line near the beginning

Matt Linder:

of the song where she says trying to fix myself for society, trying to

Matt Linder:

mix myself for society.

Matt Linder:

But can you tell me where is love in anxiety?

Matt Linder:

I feel these lines so much.

Matt Linder:

Firstly, I feel like I'm always second guessing myself and questioning myself

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

As I

Matt Linder:

relate to the world.

Matt Linder:

And as I relate to people around me, like with my family, friends, I always question

Matt Linder:

and things I've said or done, or I replay things that went wrong in my head.

Matt Linder:

Days, weeks, months, years later.

Matt Linder:

And so I'm like, oh, it's just in a state of like trying to fix things.

Matt Linder:

Also trying to, re-imagine how I can be as a person, which comes harder for

Matt Linder:

me because it's so easy for myself to get stuck in the past and not think

Matt Linder:

of like, okay, how can I work on those things for a better me in the future?

Matt Linder:

and it's a lot of times lacking that love for myself and seeing that

Matt Linder:

I am loved by God and by others.

Matt Linder:

And so really lacking.

Matt Linder:

That, that vision of seeing that love that's out there in the world

Matt Linder:

for me, and coming from God for me really, really adds to the anxiety

Matt Linder:

that I already have in my life.

Matt Linder:

Uh, So it's a daily type of struggle where I need to just find,

Matt Linder:

where's that love app it's there.

Matt Linder:

I'm just don't have on that.

Matt Linder:

I'm not seeing it currently and because I'm not seeing it or recognizing it at

Matt Linder:

the time, it, then I just lose my way.

Matt Linder:

And that's where it just like feeds into my stress.

Matt Linder:

I've going through life.

Krystal Roberts:

Hmm.

Matt Linder:

So what about John?

Matt Linder:

What's your last one?

Krystal Roberts:

I got stuck a little bit on love, whereas loving in anxiety.

Krystal Roberts:

That's I don't know.

Krystal Roberts:

That's just on, sorry.

Krystal Roberts:

I got stuck on it a little

Matt Linder:

yeah,

Krystal Roberts:

like man.

Krystal Roberts:

My last song or last song is black rage and it is the part where she says victims

Krystal Roberts:

of violence, both psyche and body life out of context is living ungodly in that.

Matt Linder:

that was almost the one I chose.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Krystal Roberts:

So the way that landed with me is of twofold as a black woman.

Krystal Roberts:

I know the experience of violence via psyche and body, whether we're

Krystal Roberts:

talking about history, the history of my ancestors, or whether we're talking

Krystal Roberts:

about something as simple as being bombarded with videos of police brutality,

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Krystal Roberts:

seeing some sort of abuse while it is hurtful to the

Krystal Roberts:

person that it's being inflicted upon, it damages the psyche

Krystal Roberts:

Of us who watch it and have a.

Krystal Roberts:

History that have a history seeing these sorts of things.

Krystal Roberts:

Even movies that depict this type of violence

Krystal Roberts:

Woman, being able to identify to those victims, all I can think about is the

Krystal Roberts:

state of fear, desperation, and trauma.

Krystal Roberts:

That one must be in, Right.

Krystal Roberts:

If you're kind of enduring that.

Matt Linder:

Right.

Krystal Roberts:

And so in that state, you are out of context

Krystal Roberts:

because there is no fear.

Krystal Roberts:

There should not be any fear or trauma when you're living godly.

Krystal Roberts:

We're not talking about morals here.

Krystal Roberts:

We're simply talking about life when you're living it abundantly.

Krystal Roberts:

When you have peace, you have happiness, you have safety, you know what I mean?

Krystal Roberts:

And so the victim is living life out of context because he's not living the

Krystal Roberts:

life that God intended for him or her.

Krystal Roberts:

And then on the other side of that, the one that is inflicting the

Krystal Roberts:

violence well they're afflicting violence, which tells us that they

Krystal Roberts:

are living life out of context

Matt Linder:

Right.

Krystal Roberts:

they should, they wouldn't, God would not have them live

Krystal Roberts:

a life where they are a victimizer.

Krystal Roberts:

And so it was that piece about life out of context.

Krystal Roberts:

And it kind of, it just, I was like, that is a powerful,

Krystal Roberts:

you know what I mean, thing?

Krystal Roberts:

Like What is life in context?

Krystal Roberts:

Well, it is a life where there is a strong and genuine and sincere connection God.

Krystal Roberts:

And you aren't experiencing of the fruits of the spirit that

Krystal Roberts:

is available to us in this.

Matt Linder:

Right.

Krystal Roberts:

Right.

Krystal Roberts:

And so I chose that for that reason because I identified so strongly and I

Krystal Roberts:

thought a message for everybody, whether you are victimizer or you are a victim.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

I think that's such a good point because in the gospels, Jesus, continually

Matt Linder:

says he, came to free the oppress and he came for those who are sick.

Matt Linder:

But at the same time, he's always pushing on the Pharisees

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

to, for their own kids who like he's saying, okay, you guys

Matt Linder:

are doing things that are beyond God's law and putting more on people

Krystal Roberts:

Yes.

Matt Linder:

what even God is requiring and it's oppressing them and, and I'm

Matt Linder:

pushing you in those areas so that you can see that so that you give up.

Matt Linder:

That oppression and give up that harm of others.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

And I think that can often be the radical thing about, the gospel is that

Matt Linder:

I mean, it very much God's slant is always towards the oppressed for sure.

Matt Linder:

But the oppressors in their oppressing of others, they also too are

Matt Linder:

oppressed because they're holding on to that power as their own God and

Matt Linder:

has their own satisfaction in life.

Krystal Roberts:

Yes.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

And they need to get free of that so that they don't need.

Matt Linder:

That's so that then they can love God and they can actually love others by no longer

Matt Linder:

participating in oppression of others.

Matt Linder:

So, yeah, it's a, hard and message by it's like, as Lauren said, it's like, get free.

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

everyone needs to get free.

Matt Linder:

We are all victims of these systems in one way or another.

Matt Linder:

We're either that participants in it or we're the receivers

Matt Linder:

of it in neither is good that there's true or beautiful at all.

Matt Linder:

And you need to get free, get free of at all.

Krystal Roberts:

Yeah, You know, get out.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

get out.

Matt Linder:

Yeah.

Matt Linder:

Yeah, exactly.

About the Podcast

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Thematic explorations of the spiritual in music.

About your hosts

Profile picture for Krystal Roberts

Krystal Roberts

I'm Krystal. I'm in love with language, artistic expression, and opportunities to learn and grow while helping others do the same. I've been a spoken word artist, graduated from art school, published poetry in Educational Psychology, deeply pondered and written about Lauryn Hill, taught college freshmen how to write, and worked in corporate America on and off for the last 17 years to put my business degree to use. It's been a journey. Fun. Scary. Dark. Exhilarating. Confusing. In short, it's been everything.
Profile picture for Matthew Linder

Matthew Linder

I'm Matt. I am obsessed with music and especially hip hop. I love exploring the intersections of race and religion in rap. I have a Masters in Music History and Literature and I have several published academic articles exploring musicians such as Lauryn Hill, Kendrick Lamar, Kanye West, and early Christian Hip Hop pioneers, Gospel Gangstaz. I also do work as a freelance podcast producer/editor, co-producing Christianity Today's Quick to Listen podcast with Morgan Lee, and worked as a podcast engineer/editor for We Wonder, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, and Prayer Amid Pandemic. The latter podcast won a first-place award from the Evangelical Press Association.